Gold marked "Baldwin, London" the number 3544 and what looks like a chalice on the inside case

Feb 04, 2022. 14:21 UTC
Gold marked "Baldwin, London" the number 3544 and what looks like a chalice on the inside case
Charlie
United States of America

Category
Pocket watch

Acquired from
Inherited

For sale
Maybe
Description

Very intricately carved inner gold case and floral carved jeweled works.

Dimensions

Provenance

It was given to my wife's grandfather who owned a butcher shop by a hobo for payment for meat around 1920.

Answered within 5 days
Feb 09, 14:28 UTC
By David

Fair Market Value

$500 - $750 USD

Suggested Asking Price

$500 USD
What does this mean?

Hello Charlie,
Thank you for sending in this pocket watch to mearto.com for an appraisal.
TITLE:
Gent’s, assumed solid gold (14K) but has no obvious gold hallmarks, key wound and key set, open face pocket watch with fancy gilt dial, gilt and silvered ornamented movement and finely chased and engraved cover and cuvette, retailed by Baldwin of London, case made by Paul Jacot circa 1885-1890.
PROVENANCE:
Inherited. It was given to my wife's grandfather who owned a butcher shop, given by a hobo for payment for meat around 1920.
DESCRIPTION:
Case: The size in not known of the watch and we have a photos of the back covers.
The back cover is engraved with landscape and seascape scene which looks Swiss with engraved foliage around the circumference of the back cover. we can also see the cuvette, the movement cover, has guilloche and gilt filigree work in a foliate style over the entire cuvette except for two key winding apertures. The inside of the back cover and the inside of the cuvette bear three letters that are very stylized and not legible even in one clear photo. Perhaps this is Cyrillic or Asian lettering, but it is not a gold hallmark. They are the initials of the casemaker with a wine goblet below.
I will look for a goblet trademark under all the Swiss and English watchmakers. the case number is 3544. The same markings are found inside the back cover and cuvette. The bezel of the dial has embossed small foliate designs around the barrel of the case as well as on the dial bezel. The round embossed gold pendant and bow sits at the twelve position relative to the dial. the cuvette is marked Baldwin London and the only possibility I could find was a William Baldwin who was a watchmaker who apprenticed in circa 1804. Sometimes at the end of their careers they run what we call jewelry store today, and sell other brand watches than their own. However, this was not our man who apprenticed and made watches in 1802.
I believe Baldwin London, was a jeweler who retailed the watch. I assume he retailed this watch in London during the late 19th century. I have just found the goblet hallmark and the case was made by **N.B. -Paul Jacot a watchmaker and case maker working in Chaux de Fonds, Switzerland and registering this wine goblet trademark March 23, 1887. as far as I can tell he worked during the 1880s and 1890s and may have been related to the famous family of Jacot freres of Switzerland.
Dial: This is a round brass dial plate with the surface decoration in guilloche with raised brass Roman hour numerals, open gilt dotted minute track, guilloche subsidiary seconds dial @6, gilt brass filigree work in the dial center consisting mostly of floral patterns. There is a single fenestrated tripartite Chippendale style French hand (hour hand) and no minute hand. The dial is unsigned.
Movement: This is a finger bridge gilt and silvered decorated finger bridge movement. It has a straight barrel wheel bridge with most of the ratchet wheel exposed with a spring winding arbor in the middle, hooked and curved center wheel finger bridge with the setting arbor for setting the proper time, three small parallel and jeweled finger bridges, small curved jeweled single finger bridge. There is a bimetallic balance wheel with Swiss made index regulator marked for faster and slower and made for the English market. The Baldwin you mentioned either made the case or retailed the watch originally. This style of movement was popular in Switzerland and throughout Europe during the years 1840-1860.
CONDITION:
CASE – This is an intricately carved cover solid gold or gold filled case.” To me it has the look of solid gold in that I do not see any areas on the case where there is oxidation of the underlying metal.
DIAL –Dial is very good in condition with no signs of darkening or oxidative changes.
MOVEMENT – Clean, original, genuine and functional and obviously well cared for. The ornamentation of the finger bridge movement was popularized by several companies, the most notable being the “Bovet Fleurier Watch company” who supplied China with pocket watches with ornate movements, especially during the two decades 1830-1850.
COMPARABLES:
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/101206684_three-openface-key-wind-pocket-watches-in-18k-yellow (Three 18k gold fancy dial pocket watches sold in 2021 for 1440 Canadian Dollars = $1140.)
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/101206642_small-openface-key-wind-pocket-watch-circa-1860-37mm (9K yellow gold and enameled pocket watch sold for 330 Canadian Dollars =
$260.)
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/101206677_two-openface-pocket-watches-in-18k-yellow-gold-cases (two 18k gold fancy dial pocket watch sold for 1020 Canadian Dollars =
$806)
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/99781850_yellow-gold-and-enamel-open-face-pocket-watch (sold for $1000 in 2021)
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/98046046_a-collection-of-three-mid-19th-century-silver-fusee (mid-19th century sterling silver fancy dial pocket watches sold in 2021 for $434)
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/90571082_gold-filled-open-face-pocket-watch (Gold filled fancy dial pocket watch sold for $225 in 2020
~https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/78456175_a-john-harrison-open-face-pocket-watch (18k gold fancy dial pocket watch sold for $275 in 2019)
PRICING:
My belief is that this is most likely a fine solid gold watch from the later years of the 19th century. It is ornate in its movement and in its rich lush decorated cuvette with a fine Swiss traditional back cover. I have priced this watch as if the case is 14k gold, although I see no gold hallmarks and that happens occasionally but rarely. It was required by law in Switzerland. Most gold filled or gold plated cases are easy to discern and are spotty with oxidation, while this case looks like a solid gold case in very fine condition, my guess would be 14 or 18K gold.
I am pricing this key wound and key set watch as being retailed by a jeweler, "Baldwin, London". The case is made by Paul Jacot of Switzerland.
Since I am unable to find a Swiss gold Hallmark and we know that Paul Jacot made the case since it has his trademark, I believe, if in this fine condition and made of 14k gold the watch would have a fair market value in today’s market of $500-$750.
(Gold, plated watches like yours have a fair market value in the $200-$250 range, and 18k gold watches are in the $1000+ range.) However, I have seen watches sent to countries where hallmarks were not required, and I do not know the meaning of the three Asian like stick marks. Perhaps Jacot first sent this to a third country and made it look like it was an English watch and the third country just added their own markings to the case. I would not know how to interpret those three strange marks. But it could have gotten out of Switzerland if it were sent to a country not normally in the watch trade, but with someone needing a gold watch. Therefore, I have decided not to call this a gold filled watch (although it still might be) and not to call it an 18k watch (although it might be). I am going to let the price stand as originally judged for a 14k gold watch. Best thing to do for you, the client, is go to a reliable large jeweler to test the case for solid gold. I am also, with this explanation going to leave the price as first stated and the buyer can take a chance of buying a better or poorer quality watch, which still remains to be determined. I am going to remove the "conditional" mark from this watch. If you get clarification from a jeweler that it is solid 9K/14K or 18K gold let me know and I will alter the pricing for you.
At the price listed you, Charlie, stand to make or lose a few hundred dollars, until the case is chemically tested. Thank you for trying to supply better photos.
Thank you for choosing mearto.com for your appraisal.
My best,
David

Dear Charlie,
Thank you for contacting Mearto.com with your appraisal inquiry. So that I may best assist you, can you do the following for me.
1 - What is the diameter of the outer case?
2 - Can you clearly photograph the dial for me?
3 - Can you show me the inside and the outside of all covers?
4 - You call it a 'Baldwin, London watch #3544'. Where do you see that? Can you show it to me.
To get this watch done properly I need to see the entire watch and whether it is has gold hallmarks or not.
So, Charlie, I really need you to help me do your appraisal. It is, in the end, a joint effort.
Thanks
David

David Feb 09, 17:48 UTC

HI Charlie,
Just wanted to be certain yo received my message from this morning?
David

Charlie shannon Feb 09, 21:04 UTC

I struggle to get pictures from my phone to the computer, Working on it.

David Feb 09, 21:48 UTC

Charlie,
Without photos - Fully describe the outer and inner covers to me. The dial and movement are clear enough for me to understand them.
Can you tell me if the back of the case is marked gold? 9K/24K/18K It would say that.
Is it engraved with any type of engravings on the outer cover, monogram, dedication to someone?
You certainly could measure the watch case width.
Any photo with the cell phone will be of help even if blurry.
You were first in line this morning. So far, I have finished three other appraisals that came in and now I have to do a large clock tonight.
I put your watch on hold until tomorrow morning and will use what ever you can send me, blurry photos and most important you own description to help me.
Thank you Charlie for trying.
My best,
David

David Feb 10, 15:37 UTC

Charlie,
I will do your appraisal this morning as a solid gold watch and price it accordingly, but will made the appraisal price conditional on supplying the missing facts.
David

David Feb 11, 22:15 UTC

charlie,
I have rewritten your appraisal and taken off the conditional mark. read it carefully so you are certain you understand what I am trying to explain. The wine goblet was the key finding as you will discover.
always worth taking a closer look at such items.
My best,
David

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