Elgin bw raymond pocket watch

Feb 14, 2020. 00:40 UTC
Elgin BW Raymond pocket watch
Mike
United States of America

Category
Pocket watch

Acquired from
Inherited

For sale
Maybe
Description

ELGIN NAT'L WATCH Co No. 261588 Elgin JW B.W. Raymond 1873 B.W.C.Co 18k 203465 5cm x 1.5cm

Provenance

unknown

$1,800 - $2,200 (United States Dollar)
Answered within about 16 hours
Feb 14, 16:41 UTC
By David

Hello Mike,
Thank you for sending in your pocket watch to mearto.com for an appraisal. I shall do my best to help you with that today.
TITLE:
Rare gent’s 18s, 18k yellow gold, pendant wound, key set, savonette hunting case pocket watch, Grade 69,
"transitional' B.W. Raymond variant, made by the Elgin National Watch Company, Elgin, Illinois, circa 1873.
DESCRIPTION:
CASE: 50 mm diameter case, 18s, four leaf, with engine turned outer covers, one with a landscape scene surrounded by foliate, the other with the foliage and a black area inside the trellis for the owner’s signature. The inside of the case reveals that the metal is 18k gold, case no 203465 and made by the Brooklyn Watch Case Company (active from c. 1865-1890s when it was purchased by Fahys). There is a golf fluted ball Pendant and bow placed at the three position (savonette) opposite the case hinge.
DIAL: Triple sunk white enameled dial with fine Roman hours, closed bar minute track, sunken subsidiary seconds @6, fine steel Fleur-de-Lys hands and the sunken dial center with the name, ‘Elgin National Watch Company’.
MOVEMENT: Size 18, gilt full plate movement, Grade 69, Model 1, Class 1 made by the Elgin National Watch Company, Elgin, Illinois, B.W. Raymond model variation, serial number 261588, made in 1873 in a run of 4000 such movements, 15 jewels, some in screw settings, going barrel and quick train with a Moseley regulator, adjusted and of railroad grade. Apparently this is a key set and pendant wound movement. I am a bit uncertain of this arrangement, but have noted online the following at:
https://www.slideshare.net/LuisCasillas4/early-elgin-stem-wind-watches-18651878
{“Letter from Mr. David H Schantz: “Mr. Roscoe R. Smith of the Elgin National Watch Company informed that the first stem wind watch was made by their company in 1873 which was made over on the B.W. Raymond movement formerly a key wind model. The first 100,000 serial numbers were assigned from 1870 to 1873….Was there a stem wind/key set B.W. Raymond? Grade Description B.W. Raymond 15 jewels, quick train, straight-line escapement, patent regulator, adjusted H.Z. Culver 15 jewels, quick train, straight-line escapement, adjusted H.H. Taylor 15 jewels, adjusted It seems odd that the flagship wouldn’t get the invention, but the two just below it did!
42. How many stem wind/key set Elgins were made? Grade name Estimated production Candidate serial numbers Lowest lever seen (as of Apr. 2014) B.W. Raymond ≤ 100 (or zero) 246,501 - 246,600 none so far H.Z. Culver ≤ 450 155,001 - 155,100 235,001 - 238,000 235,355 H.H. Taylor ≤ 650 155,100 - 160,000 155,743 All made mid-1873 - mid 1874. Warning: estimates are very speculative.”}
The movement is fully signed and numbered by the Elgin National Watch Company.
CONDITION:
Case – Excellent
Dial – Excellent
Movement – As I read about this 1873 movement I realize this is one a relatively few that transitioned from key winding to pendant winding, and I am not terribly familiar with this movement except from my current readings. So, this watch is in fine condition and is quite rare as well in terms of a using a transitional movement used for a short period of time.
Pricing - I checked out some similar serial numbered B.W. Raymond examples (similar to your serial number) on the pocket watch database, and found others that were very much like your example. I decided to take my fair market value pricing directly from that website.
Considering rarity and condition I have put a fair market value of $1800-$2200 with retail pricing somewhat higher than that. I know this was quite informative for me to study and I hope I have understood your watch correctly. I am certain that you must have researched your watch very carefully, so please let me know if anything needs to be corrected in the write-up of the appraisal which i will be happy to do for you. Hope I have been of some help to you in pricing this beautiful early pocket watch.
Thank you for using mearto.com for this appraisal.
My best,
David

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