Annibale carracci “madonna and child with saints

Apr 07, 2021. 12:37 UTC
Annibale Carracci “Madonna and Child with Saints
Przemyslaw
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Category
Fine art

Acquired from
Gallery/Dealer

For sale
Maybe
Description

I have something else :) .. I know you will say that the original hangs in PN in Bologna .. This painting is from the 16th century (I once bought it in a gallery for my birthday). Dimensions H94.7cm W64.7cm which is one third of the painting in Italy to the millimeter. Oil on canvas. Artist's signature and date (1581) - that is several years earlier than the one in Italy .. I think this was a preparatory work for that big one. It's very dirty - I mean old brown varnish. I have never given it to renovation because it looks good as it is. A friend of mine from Oxford University has only recently been working on Saint Catherine's lips and neck. That's probably the only thing you need to fix. No one has ever seen it and valued it and whether it is authentic( in past 20-30 years) It would be strange if someone copied it in the artist's times.. Apart from Annibale signature there are many other descriptions and corrections and details that a counterfeiter would not do- probably . Everything can be seen only with UV and infrared light and with computer processing. Sometimes it is difficult to see something clearly from the photos due to my low quality equipment (iPhone,uv lamp from amazon). The photos can not be enlarged because the pixel get blurry. I think this painting is an interesting object for additional research. Frame is not original. Some restoration visible under UV but not visible on the painting or know about any done in the past.Signature on alter next to saint Catherine foot. Same place is like Jesus on the Cross with the plaque showing his wine above the cross (?) letters visible in the sequence, so my guess (photo)about 18 cm high -The Crucifixion -his work from 1581..)I think ,above signature in Latin “frago f “ -painted .. If compared to painting in Italy or preparatory drawing - very similar and nearly identical.This one is more in his style and the other one was more controversial and early attributed to Massari. Looks like has been relined at some point.

Provenance

French private collection, private collection

Answered within 2 days
Apr 09, 16:50 UTC
By George
The specialist needs more information

Dear Przemyslaw,

Thank you for contacting Mearto with your appraisal inquiry and uploading this very interesting painting. Sadly I am not able to see the signature. Sometimes it is very difficult to take a picture of the filigree letters. Is there a possibility to have some new shots? Thank you very much.

With kind regards,
George

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 09, 17:23 UTC

Hello George
I will try my best and upload one soon.
Best regards
Przemyslaw

George Apr 10, 13:23 UTC

Dear Przemyslaw,

Thank you very much for your help and have a great weekend!

With kind regards,
George

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 11, 22:53 UTC

Hello
A tough thing. Unfortunately, a very difficult thing with this nice clean photos... I tried but it didn't work out too well. Very flustered..because you could say there is a lot of text, letters but not legible. Carracci's signature, but under a magnifying glass and with a very low resolution .. it is enough to slightly enlarge and blur.. We see there in the upper left corner date MDXlX and above progettato ../ designed- date of commencement of construction of the Farmese Palace ..? Then the word Lazio (canino lazio - the birthplace of Pope Paul III ..). Probably at this point it is written for whom this picture was painted. Strange, but there is a different Annibal signature here, but in a different style (I don't think he trained his signatures here :) unless there were deferential works before). Don't worry if you can't put a valve on it, if this is original Carracci, I know well how much it would be worth ..and free tv advertising before will go for sale as this big finds not coming often on the market. More interesting for me was your opinion on this and whether it has any potential for further research. Will add photos today and maybe tomorrow with signature you asked for.Best regards
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 11, 22:55 UTC

I forgot add it best to check out this photos on mobile phone with magnifying glass:)
Thanks

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 13, 09:22 UTC

Good morning.
I give up:) Ultimately, only a professional or expert in physical inspection could ultimately say what he thinks about this work…and this isn’t easy to arrange or nearly impossible.I am happy because it looks nice on my wall anyway.
Best regards
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 13, 18:45 UTC

Hi
I said that I will not write any more :) but I also found many traces of inscriptions, traces of former stickers - unreadable for me because in a foreign language and I need better eyes. Even this piece of frame looks like a small picture. The numbers are there too.

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 14, 06:57 UTC

Good morning ☀️. is it not sometimes similar to the mark of the Cardinal Ludovico Ludovisi collection( last 5 photos)

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 14, 22:19 UTC

Good evening
This is 100% L. Ludovisi stamp with description above and below.
P.K

George Apr 16, 13:52 UTC

Dear Przemyslaw,

I hope you are well and healthy. I received all the information and start my research. I have to ask you for some patience. My sincere apologies for the delay and I ask for your understanding.

With kind regards,
George

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 16, 14:01 UTC

Hi. Take as much time as you need.. this painting is happily hanging on my wall I think:)
If you’re remember my other painting , just checked the frame and discovered please where was label and with some computer help is visible sign El Greco in Greek… would check this later on …( photo)
Have a nice weekend
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 20, 08:07 UTC

Good morning
Yesterday, after reading a few articles (searching for connections of Ludovisi family, Carracci..) on the website villaludovisi.org, I came across the words affiliation of Don Gaspar Mendez de Haroy Guzman, Spain's ambassador in Rome from 1677–1682, and Viceroy of Naples from 1683 until his death in 1687. Guzman has direct links to the Ludovisi family and had held several ex-Ludovisi paintings in his collection. There was also a family coat of arms. The paintings from their collection were monogrammed by DGH. Here we have a "new" canvas, so no inscriptions are visible, but between the Ludovisi gallery stamps there is a coat of arms similar to the Haro family coat of arms (wolves eating lamb) - small size on wood so not perfect(photos).I have no idea if Guzman's collection was marked that way too .. A few thoughts in the morning .. have a nice day.
Przemysław

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 20, 20:18 UTC

Hello
In right corner I found mark with date 1595 another 'Dragon.." and 'Lion..?
(photos).. if visible..)
Best Regards

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 20, 21:18 UTC

On the middle is small stamp with monogram JE and date 1851(or1751)

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 23, 10:02 UTC

Good morning
One of the stamps on the middle looks more like "unicorn " with closer examination . The unicorn was part of coat of Arms Dukes of Parma.Lion too.The Duke of Parma and Piacenza, Ranuccio VI, and his brother, Cardinal Odoardo approached the Carracci in 1593 and asked them to come to Rome to decorate the Palazzo Farnese.This could explain the date on the frame 1595 as preparatory work for main painting.
Best regards
Przemyslaw

George Apr 27, 17:37 UTC

Dear Przemyslaw,

Thank you for your patience, detailed images, and your help. I am waiting for one last response from a colleague who is an expert for North Italian paintings and would write you the conclusions tomorrow. Thank you very much.

With kind regards,
George

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 27, 18:17 UTC

Hello.
Just was looking at the photos and the painting and just wish to clearly see all the description on the front and the back ( there is so much more.. ) . Was really fancy give to professional restorer but may lose the antique look.. Shame can't compare to the painting in Italy and see the deferences myself. Think there is more marks but can't read them as don't know how the galleries or owners marked their property . On the back was two more oval plaques but are gone now . I did say the date on the stretcher is 1595 but is more like 1593..But on the painting next to ST.Catharine foot is date believe to be 1586( don't know if it is related to date when this painting was made ). May include few more photos . Thank you for the hard work.
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz Apr 28, 06:29 UTC

Good morning
Next discovery is large four letters next to foot and where the date is- CARR ( 3 last photos)
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 01, 17:41 UTC

Hello
I found the sign "La Girafe" (in French) with the head of a giraffe .. but I can't find anything about it on the internet who used this sign( owner/dealer/restorer-2 photos).
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 01, 18:04 UTC

I don't know if its has anything to do with but want share with you - Looking recently at the description of the painting Annibale Carracci (Bologna c. 1560-1609 Rome) The Madonna and Child with Saint Lucy and the Young Saint John the Baptist (Christie "s auction house 2019) at Lot ESSAY - the date in description is something "similar" to a date on the painting stretcher but Ludovico mentioned ..-..the half-length Madonna and Child with figures by Ludovico recorded in Palazzo Sampieri in the 1760s or ’70s by Marcello Oretti (loc. cit.; Marciari, op. cit.). Ludovico’s Madonna is likewise listed in a 1795 inventory of Palazzo Sampieri and again in a guide by Giacomo Gatti in 1803, but has long been considered lost (loc. cit.).

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 01, 18:04 UTC

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6198695

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 01, 18:30 UTC

From the same description-Many of the Sampieri paintings were acquired by the French Viceroy, Eugène de Beauharnais, in 1811.
The stamp with date looking like is his monogram written in.. and crown on the left side...(3 photos)
this just my thoughts..:)

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 04, 12:38 UTC

Good afternoon
Hope you had great weekend .
I'm sure now it is Eugène de Beauharnais coat of arms. Still puzzling me the * la girafe* mark .. any idea please?
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 05, 13:32 UTC

Hello
Where there was one of the badges, there was an imprint of Sotheby's logo - but it is very faint so that I may be wrong(!)
Even if I am are wrong to follow this trail and browse the Sotheby's sale for Ludovico Carracci, there is one painting sold( LOT 185):Ludovico Carracci (1555-1619) THE MADONNA AND CHILD WITH SAINTS CATHERINE O.Estimate 100,000 - 150,000 USD
LOT SOLD. $ 115,750. 25 JANUARY 2001 | 10:15 AM EST
NEW YORK. But no info given .....

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 05, 19:46 UTC

Hello
Today I looked at the photos that I sent you and I think that they are not legible and probably no one would express their opinion on the basis of them. If it makes sense I can try to send the attachment to some e-mail address. From this stretcher you can see the history of the painting from the 16th to the 19th century, but to say something specifically, it would be necessary to physically examine it. Do you think this is a potential object to take such action in the future?
Przemyslaw

Przemyslaw kleszcz May 06, 12:29 UTC

Hello
Probably I could send something new every day for at least a year :)
Under the foot of Saint Catherine I found the inscription ANNIBAL (next to it where I once wrote that there is CARR and date). (two last photos Have a nice day
Przemyslaw

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