Waltham Watch - "American" Date Unknown
01 February 2021
Description

I have my great, great grandfather's pocket watch that has been in our family since it was purchased in the 19th century. It winds, keeps time, and looks nearly mint to me. It includes a gold fob that was purchased at the same time.

Provenance

I know the entire history. It's written down. Purchased for $100 in the 1880s? by my great-great grandfather. Passed through oldest male until me.

Acquired from
Inherited
For sale
Maybe
Answered within about 1 hour
By David
Feb 01, 23:17 UTC
Fair Market Value
$1,000 - $1,300 USD
Insurance Value $0 USD
What does this mean?

Hello John,
Thank you for sending in this family heirloom pocket watch to mearto.com for an appraisal. I shall try to help you with the appraisal today.
TITLE:
Gent’s, 18-size, Art Nouveau era, 14k solid gold, pendant wound and lever set, keyless, savonette, hunting case pocket watch, P.S. Bartlett, Grade 25 movement, Serial Number 4458282, made by the American Waltham Watch Company, Waltham, Ma. USA, made November 1890 - March 1891.
PROVENANCE:
“Purchased for $100 in the 1880s by my great-great grandfather. Passed through oldest male until me.”
DESCRIPTION:
Case: Full size 18, four leaf, 14k gold, hunting case pocket watch, with fluted ball shaped pendant and round bow placed at the three position (savonette) opposite one of the case hinges. The covers are both beautifully engraved with foliage and curled, wave-like shapes, very much in the style of the Art Nouveau era (c. 1880-1910) which stressed natural forms of flora and fauna. One cover has a house and lake in a landscape scene while the other has a shield shaped central cameo for the owner’s initials. The barrel of the case is filled with guilloche gold filigree work in a tight hobnail pattern and the case barrel also reveals the two hinges for front and rear covers. The inside of the various covers within the case show one to be marked, “Warranted 14k gold Assay” which is essentially the American hallmark. The mark is an imprint from Gratz of New York and Chicago, presumed to be the jeweler who retailed the watch and likely determined the fact that this case was 14k gold. Waltham likely made the case for this watch as well as the dial and movement and wholesaled it out to the retail jeweler.
Dial: There is a thin brass knurled edge glazed bezel over the white enameled dial with black Arabic hours, closed bar minute track with red Arabic markers placed every five minutes around the circumference of the dial, sunken subsidiary seconds dial @6 and a blued steel Spade hour hand and the steel skeletonized Cathedral minute hand (therefore, one of the hands is replaced, most likely the hour hand). The upper dial is marked “American Waltham Watch Co.”. (The American Waltham Watch Company existed under that name from 1885-1906-see history below)
Movement: This is a damascened nickel size 18 full plate movement, the grade 25, model 1883 made by the American Waltham Watch Company of Waltham Massachusetts. The serial number is
4458282 which indicates it was manufactured between November 1890 and March 1891 in a run of 500 such movements. (Over the course of their existence Waltham produced 65,100 Grade 25 movements.) Each movement was made with 15 jewels, mostly in hunting cases which were wound from the pendant and set by using a lever adjacent to the dial. The movement is marked ‘P.S. Bartlett’, named for early employee Patten Sargent Bartlett who worked in the plant when the company was called the Boston Watch Company, circa 1853/1854. This full plate movement uses a
Bimetallic balance wheel with Breguet type of fine hairspring, with a Church patented (1885 patent) click Regulator for adjusting the movement to run faster or slower. This fine movement is adjusted to be accurate in three positions as well as being adjusted for changes in temperature and isochronism. The movement is properly signed and numbered and is in wonderful clean condition.
CONDITION:
Case – The case appears to be in excellent condition with little or no scuffs, scratches or abrasions.
Dial – This is where there is a bit of hurt to the value for this watch. There are small and very fine, but definitive fractures to the dial as follows: compound fractures exist at the 16, 26, 31, 37/38 and 53 minute markers. While a small straight hairline fracture is noted at the 31 minute mark. Other than those breaks the dial is missing one of its original hands. Since the Cathedral hand comes right into the minute track (where it should be) and the Spade hand comes to the middle of the hour markers, the replaced hand is likely the Spade hand. The Cathedral hand is an elegant hand, often used on European watches but also in America it is seen on fine watches, and they would have looked beautiful if both were in place. Besides those demerits the dial looks fine, i.e. the markings are clear and precise and in good shape.
Movement – Clean, original to this case, genuine and functional.
HISTORY of the Waltham Watch Company:
This American company was the first to produce watches by the machined use of interchangeable parts. This was the vision of the founders of the company; Aaron Dennison, David Davis and Edward Howard. The initial company was located at Roxbury, Mass. in 1851, and was called the Warren Manufacturing Company. The business moved to Waltham, Ma in 1854 and the name had just been changed to the Boston Watch Company. That business failed in 1857 and was sold at a sheriff's sale, reorganized and called Appleton, Tracy and Company. In 1859 the Waltham Improvement Company merged with Appleton, Tracy to form the American Watch Company. Between 1859 and 1885 the firm operated under that corporate name. These early watches were key wound. Stem winding was introduced in 1870. The last key wound watches were produced in 1919. In 1885 the name was changed to the American Waltham Watch Company. In 1906 it became the Waltham Watch Company and in 1923 the Waltham Watch and Clock Company. Production ceased in 1950.
COMPARABLES:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/91213918_waltham-an-18-size-14-karat-gold-hunting-case-pocket (Sold for $1500 in 2020)
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/92808616_antique-1900-14k-gold-waltham-full-hunter-pocket (A.W.W.Co. IN SOLID 14K GOLD, SOLD IN 2020 FOR $900- Note the American hallmark for 14k gold on the inside of the cover.)
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/93432136_hunter-case-14k-gold-waltham-ladies-pocket-watch (In 14k solid gold case this watch sold in 2020 for $400)
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/92726141_waltham-14k-gold-hunter-case-pocket-watch (American watch company, pre 1885, in solid 14k gold Art Nouveau case sold for $950 in 2020.)
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/79450195_14k-gold-american-waltham-watch-co-pocket-watch (14k gold savonette A.W.W.Co. hunting case, 1890, sold for $425 in 2020)
PRICING:
The only problem with this watch is the extent of dial damage when compared to other similar watches. It is not that noticeable but buyers always look out for dial hairlines. The price I am supplying is the price of the watch if sold on the “watch” market and not into the gold market. Although the presence of 14k solid gold enhances its value on the watch market, it is not the primary determinant. (I will calculate for you the approximate value if sold on the gold market since I know the weight in grams from other similar watches (that will be calculated for you below my signature). The fair market value of this pocket watch if sold on the watch market would range from $1000-$1300. The retail price would be about twice that amount. I know you are not selling this watch but keeping it safe and in good shape to pass it on and that is a very good thing to hear. Looking at these recent sales gives me a more accurate way of putting a price on this family heirloom timepiece. It was my pleasure to do the appraisal.
I thank you for all the extra work you did to uncover the reality of precisely where, when and who made this fine watch that you great-great-grandfather used. He was a man of taste.
Thank you for choosing mearto.com for your appraisal and for your help in adding to the photos and information I needed.
My best,
David

Dear John,
Thank you for contacting Mearto with your appraisal inquiry.
I can do this appraisal for you by just seeing the outside of the case and the dial. However, if you want a precise appraisal you should show me a clear view of the inside of any cover on the case. If possible, can you take a clear photo of the movement for me? I do need to know the diameter of the outer case. (Remember that Waltham made hundreds of different models and many different sizes.)
If you want me to do the appraisal, as submitted, with no view of the interior of the case (one photo did not come out as a picture), I will do that. I assume the watch is NOT solid gold from the angular view inside of one of the covers which had no markings?
Let us leave the fob you mention out of the appraisal since I did not see it. I would rather just keep this appraisal to doing the pocket watch.
How shall we proceed?
Thank you for your help,
David

Thanks

David Feb 02, 03:17 UTC

Hi John,
Please let me know you received my message from this afternoon.
Thank you
David

John tripp Feb 02, 15:58 UTC

Hi there. I can do the things that you want - but I'm a bit worried about trying to open the watch. Can you give me an idea of how to do it?

I thought it was gold, but I don't see markings on the inside of the cover.

David Feb 02, 16:56 UTC

Hi John,
Thank you for writing.
(1) - Opening the watch should not be very difficult. You did see the inside of both covers, which is important. Are there are markings on the front and back covers at all? if so tell me what they are.
(2) - There is a movement cover called the cuvette. It should be hinged to the inside of the case. Carefully, look around the edge of the cuvette distant from the hinge (not near the hinge). You may see some area with several scratches where people have opened it before or a place that might have a slight ledge or tiny opening. You will need a strong pen-knife or sharp blade so **please wear thick gloves so you do not slip and cut yourself. When you want to try to open the cuvette you hold the watch in one hand and with your stronger hand you place the sharp blade flat against the point you are trying to open. You press inward and twist, the same motion one would use if you were shucking oysters or clams. The cuvette should pop open revealing the movement. Give it a couple of tries to see if that works for you. You will not harm the watch since the cuvette was made to be opened for repairs, but my guess is that this one has not been opened for decades. Remember to pick a spot far away from the hinge, perhaps almost directly opposite the hinge or a bit to the side of that point.
Let me know how this process is going.
Thank you,
David

David Feb 02, 18:10 UTC

John,
Also, remember to send me the width or diameter of the watch outer case (not including the winder)
David.

David Feb 02, 19:30 UTC

John,
Can you tell me if you had any success/
i would like to get your appraisal done for you.
David

John tripp Feb 02, 21:34 UTC

It is 2 inches wide. I'm still trying to open it.

John tripp Feb 02, 21:40 UTC

Just to clarify - I'm opening the back, right? I've got a picture of the first part of the back that's opened. It's got some markings.

John tripp Feb 02, 21:46 UTC

I've added those pictures of the markings.

John tripp Feb 02, 21:53 UTC

Figured it out. Adding pictures now.

John tripp Feb 02, 21:56 UTC

Seems really clean inside. I am pretty sure that this has been kept in a drawer since the early 1900s.

David Feb 02, 22:08 UTC

John,
Now you will have a very accurate and precise appraisal.
CONGRATULATIONS on doing this, and it shows you the American made 14K solid gold mark clearly.
I will do this appraisal sometime before I go to sleep tonight. Guaranteed!!
Thank you for helping John.
David

David Feb 02, 23:43 UTC

John,
I just wanted to be sure you received this appraisal because it did not send as easily as it usually does.
david

John tripp Feb 03, 23:28 UTC

Thanks for such an extensive review. I'm glad to know all of that stuff about it. Is this something that could be restored? If the face and hand were fixed, would it be worth it as far as a change to the value of the watch?

David Feb 04, 01:29 UTC

John,
There is a chance, but not a good one, of finding another skeletonized Cathedral hand to replace the Spade hand. As far as fixing the multiple hairline fractures, you would have to replace the entire dial. The original dial is intact despite all of the hairlines, and if it were me, I would leave it just as it sits right now. As a family heirloom, you want it to remain as original as possible.
To answer your question directly I would not spend any money on this watch to replace or fix the dial. If you are fortunate enough to know a jeweler, perhaps he can keep his eye out for a similar Cathedral hand, but it would have to be just the correct size. needle in the haystack type of situation.
David

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