Tiffany (2) lamps

May 03, 2020. 14:56 UTC
Tiffany (2) lamps
Sami
United States of America

Category
Antiques & curio

Acquired from
Other

For sale
Yes
Description

I recently purchased 2 Tiffany Lamps. ( or Tiffany style ? ). One of them is the red oriental poppy floor lamp with the senior base ( base looks like an reproduction?) and one fravrile glass dragonfly table lamp. They both have several makers markings tags The visible one has quoizel collectables.( brass markings). However, I found other makers markings stamped tags on the glass itself on the dragonfly shade. And have tree separate makers markings on the oriental poppys lower rim floor lamp. I have done intense research And found only 3 of the dragonfly table lamps. And one oriental poppy floor lamp. I can provide images if needed. Any help regarding the different makers markings on the shades would be greatly appreciated. I read that the addition of tags where made in the 80 or prior dates for some reason. Thank you

Provenance

The oriental poppy was purchased from Sonora California about a year or two. Yes , I had it looked at by two auction houses but was not been given an accurate and fair answers. I believe that the makers markings Thad that was added afterwards is an issue therefore was overlooked.

$1,500 - $2,200 (United States Dollar)
Answered within 1 day
May 04, 20:09 UTC
By Delia

Good afternoon, Sami,

Thank you for contacting Mearto with your appraisal inquiry. I'm not sure I understand you fully - these have several maker's marks? On the leaded shade as well as the glass and base? I've looked through the photographs and don't see any marks, much less several - what exactly do they say?

I am quite sure that these neither of these shades were made by Tiffany & Co., Louis Comfort Tiffany or Tiffany Studios.

Which shade/lamp is marked Quoizel?

Thanks to clarify!
Delia

Sami uygur May 07, 14:19 UTC

Good morning Delia ,
They both have the quiozel metal tag . If you look carefully, the last 4 photos, the tag is hidden but visible. The 2 last image has a tag imprint in the glass ( both are ok the rim.
I realize that is a bit of an unusual
But I can assure you the the tags are there .
As to why I think that the oriental poppy is an original. The senior base maybe a nice newer reproduction,
The quality of the glass and translucency is what i saw when I saw several originals.
Please look carefully you can only see a small portion of the tag hidden on the lower rim.
Thank you very much .

Sami uygur May 07, 14:49 UTC

I can provide closer images I needed.
Thank you .

Delia May 07, 17:44 UTC

yes, if you could take and upload photographs of JUST the Quoizel tags that would be helpful.
With Quoizel tags, they are not Tiffany but Tiffany style by Quoizel and there is a BIG difference in the value.

Sami uygur May 07, 18:33 UTC

I realize that that’s my dilemma.
The quoizel tag was added afterwards, the soldering is very obvious that is doesn’t match the rest of the shade
Thank you

Delia May 07, 18:41 UTC

Ah, now I understand.
Unless these are engraved Tiffany & Co., Louis Comfort Tiffany or Tiffany Studios, they are not the originals. I would still like to see closer more specific photographs of the Quoizel tags if you can do it. Thanks!

Sami uygur May 07, 22:27 UTC

Hi ,
I just uploaded several images
One is the quoizel where you can clearly see that the soldering is newer and doesn’t match the rest of the soldering in the shade.
The other two are closeup.
The tag is barely visible ( shape) but there and there is another one unfortunately less visible but there. Witch matches with the tags found on Tiffany studios lamp shade.
Also one of them that is engraved is visible but not readable.
To me the engraved tag makes more sense to protect against forgery. Plate are easier to manipulate and replace or add.
I have a similar engraved tag on my dragonfly lamp.
I have also seen similar tags on Tiffany studios earlier works .
And lot of the earlier work was not signed as well.
Thank you .

Delia May 10, 15:36 UTC

Good morning, Sami,
This appraisal has been difficult and I've consulted two expert/colleagues who are also extensively familiar with Tiffany and Tiffany style lamps.
We all agree that the quality of the work, while good, does not reach the quality seen in works made by Tiffany Studios / Tiffany & Co. / Louis Comfort Tiffany. None of us can make out the two tags that are not visible in your photographs. We agree that the current market pays a premium for Tiffany-caliber works bearing the various marks of Tiffany. We also agree that the presence of Quoizel tags - whether these were manufactured by Quoizel or not - considerably devalues these lamps.
You don't show any photographs of the bases that go with these lamps. Are those marked? Are those original to the lamps? What are the overall heights of the lamps and diameter of the shades? You call one a dragonfly lamp but I don't see any dragonflies in the shade. Can you take a photograph of those?

Sami uygur May 10, 15:58 UTC

Good morning,
Thank again for all your time and research.
I will add more images of the base for the oriental poppy lamp
And add some of the dragonfly lamp .
As far as the tags , I realize that having the quoizel tag diminishes the value and definitely miss lead and complicated the authenticity.
I know that in the 80 lots off tags where added to shades.
Also the tag are not readable.
But they are there. ( seen simple in original shade where it’s also hard to see .
Also the questions is why would someone go to the extent to in grave a tag that is barely visible and add another one with the quoizel tag??
It doesn’t make any sense.
And to engrave a signature on a glass makes more sense to avoid
Forgery.
The dragonfly has the same tag in the glass itself.
And If this was a quoizel( 80s the company was mass produced but I only find one example and even that one, I can tell the glass is not the same quality and the soldering looks not as clean and the quality of the soldering.
Thank you again for you kind response and time .

Sami uygur May 10, 16:09 UTC

I just uploaded more images
My belief is that the senior base for the oriental poppy is probably a nice reproduction. ( not sure )
As far as the dragonfly. You will find the quiozel tag and the tag that is ingrained in the glass itself
Same whit this lamp . I only find 3 other example two of them maybe the same lamp .
Again why would someone go to The extent to in grave a tag on a glass and add another tag ( quiozel) none sense.
Lots of shade where lost misplaced or missed tag.
Thank you .

Delia May 10, 16:12 UTC

To clarify, the tags are on metal or engraved into the glass? Both? Can you actually READ Tiffany? I have NEVER seen anything by Tiffany that wasn't engraved VERY WELL AND DISTINCTLY. There would not be any difficulty in reading it. I would also be quite dubious that these are genuine Tiffany lamps...the quality simply isn't there.
Could these be DALE TIFFANY lamps? No relation to Tiffany, and they made very good copies...not meant to decieve but unfortunately people are often confused.
If there is any way for you to take photo (try using with light behind, or with light to the side) that will show me what you can see but which I can't in the existing photographs that would be very helpful.
Perhaps these had Quiozel tags to begin with that fell off and the current Quiozel tags are simply replacements?

Sami uygur May 10, 16:26 UTC

I am almost positive that it is not Dale,Meyda, Astoria, ect.. I have seen lots of Dale, all the majors manufacturer and individuals or smaller companies .who does high end reproductions.( scott Ridge ect..
Both , the quoizel tags are metal
The metal tag that you are able to see only a small portion is the one that I think where the original tag is including the 3rd one that is engraved in the glass on the lower rim.
Same for the dragonfly.
You are correct that in most cases the tags are visible and readable. Unfortunately that why I am having a problem.
Yes I will try to take better images and add them ASAP.

Sami uygur May 10, 18:06 UTC

Hi,
I just updated more images regarding the tags.
If you look very carefully you can see two corners of the tags .
Yes , unfortunately they are not readable, but it is certain that there are some markings two or three which would be consistent with a Tiffany studio lamps.
And to me to have those markings implemented as they are ( engraved) and add the quiozel makes no sense whatsoever.
Thank you very much.

Sami uygur May 11, 04:21 UTC

Hi ,
I need to make a correction regarding the tags .
The dragonfly has the Dale inc tag, but the soldering is newer as well compared the to rest of the soldering.
Thank you .

Delia May 13, 11:02 UTC

Sami,
I've agonized over this appraisal. I can't see any of the engravings in the glass that you say are there so, as an appraiser in good conscience, I can't value something I can't see. There is some disagreements among Tiffany experts as to the visual appearance of the lead mullions (the lead between the glass pieces) when viewed from the underside. There were many artisans working for Tiffany & Co and they were not equally skilled but I (and colleagues I have consulted) have not found any examples where glass pieces are marked Tiffany. The best I can do is call these "Tiffany style" and say that the Dale Tiffany and Quoizel tags are possibly later additions but regardless of when the tags were added, they will bring the overall value down fairly significantly.
In the Bay Area, the most knowledgeable people on Tiffany are Alan Michaan of Michaan's Auctioneers and Angela Past of Bonhams (she is in their Los Angeles office but used to be in San Francisco fairly frequently). It might be worth getting their opinion on these if you have not already.

So...these are:

A Tiffany Style leaded glass and bronze "dragonfly" table lamp
Bears a possibly later metal tag impressed "Dale Tiffany Inc."
[height and diameter of shade]
$800-1,200*

A Tiffany Style leaded glass and bronze "Oriental Poppy" table lamp
Bears a metal tag impressed "Quoizel Collectibles"
[height and diameter of shade]
$700-1,000*
*represents fair-market values for auction purposes; retail or asking price may vary.

Sami uygur May 14, 14:13 UTC

Delia,
Thank you very much for your time and honest input.
I really appreciate it. I understand
I agree that, this is a difficult one .
Yes the tags are not readable but are there . ( lots of the reproduction quiozel, Dale etc,..
the glass and soldering is not the same quality , I also have couple of Dale and quiozel to compare)
the tags specially the soldering usually fallow the rest of the soldering and usually there is only one tag,
Usually Tiffany has 2-3 tags.
Thank again for all your time and informations.
Not: I also have a laburnum shade that I am doing research on.

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